MLS 13 DAY 2 RACE 1 (4) server blue, E+P

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Johnpap71
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:27 am

MLS 13 DAY 2 RACE 1 (4) server blue, E+P

Post by Johnpap71 »

Submission Type:

1. Your registered Boat Name:JohnPap

2. Race Day:2

3, Group (colour):BLUE

4. Race (number) 1(4)

5. Time (in Replay): 18:00

6. Rule(s) applicable: 11

7. Boat(s) involved: BatBoat

8. Description: I was sailing on port with Batboat overlap and leeward of him and after i gybe on stb on layline Batboat gybed also on starboard and he became leeward of me with overlap. Then he started luffing me on broach level and i made it to keep clear just before the broach when BatBoats bears at the moment i was trying to save the broach and axaclty after he luffs me again but this thime i had no time to respond and stay clear. I received a pen11 and i aksed to canccel as he gave me no time to react on the second luff. I called him protest as in my opinion it was a pen 16,1 for him. Also in my opinion his action was against sportsmanship as with his action he was not trying to gain a place (we both lost places) and the only think he wanted was to give me a pen. He was luffing me in broach level for 16 seconds till the time i received the pen 11...

9. Print Screen attached (required fo a manual protest):

10. Replay attached (recommended):
Attachments
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Batboat
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:02 pm
Location: Danmark

Re: MLS 13 DAY 2 RACE 1 (4) GROUP B, E+P

Post by Batboat »

BatBoat and John are sailing downwind on port tack and John having overlap. At time 17.41 BatBoat gybes from port to starboard and John also gybes from port to starboard. As a result both boats are sailing starboard downwind and BatBoat having overlap on John. John now being under rule 11 as overlapped windward boat. From time 17.43 to 17.47, BatBoat luffs up and John has time and room to keep clear (no penalty at this time). From this point on BatBoat does not make any course (rudder) changes and John receives a umpire penalty at 17.58, which is at least 10 seconds later than latest course change from BatBoat.

My conclusion:
BatBoat gybes and John has time and room to keep clear according to rule 16.1
BatBoat luffs up and John has time and room to keep clear according to rule 16.1
Since the penalty is 10 seconds later than BatBoats latest course change when the penalty occurs, John has time and room to keep clear according to rule 16.1
On the other hand John should keep clear of BatBoat as he is leeward overlapped boat, cf. rule 11.
John should be DSQ for being in violation with rule 11

For the more practical record I must underline that I do not make this maneuver to annoy John. I hope John understand and respects this. I need to gybe and I need space after my gybe. My luff is the only way to create the necessary room (to get free wind). I would have expected you to luff further up than me (to keep clear) - and if you have done that I would probably have sailed optimal again.
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euphoria
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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway
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Re: MLS 13 DAY 2 RACE 1 (4) server blue, E+P

Post by euphoria »

Facts:
Wind conditions around 25 knots.
Batboat to windward of JohnPap on port tack downwind.
Batboat gybes and luffs to a TWA around 150.
JohnPap responds doing the same, staying parallell 1/2 boat length to windward.
Batboat then luffs around 20 degrees during 2 seconds.
Before Batboat stops luffing, JohnPap responds by luffing.
When the boats are parallel, the gap between the boats are 1/4 boat width.
JohnPap continues to luff, and his stern hits the side of Batboat (no VSK pen given).
JohnPap initiates a broch and luffs to a TWA around 118 before he recovers and comes down.
JohnPap then ends up on a lower course than Batboat and they hit again.
JohnPap receives a penalty from the VSK umpire under rule 11, which he cancels.

Conclusion:
Batboat did not give JohnPap room to keep clear in a seamanlike way.
Batboat broke rule 16.1 and shall be scored DSQ in the race.
JohnPap broke rule 11, but is exonerated under rule 43.1(b).

Notes:
1. As right of way boat, it is not necessary to make contact in order to prove that the other boat didn't keep clear. By making contact, the right of way boat run the risk of being DSQ'ed for breaking rule 16.1. With no contact, the right of way boat can only be DSQ'ed if she forced the other boat into an unseamanlike move, like a broach.
2. This way of sailing is normally not a good way of sailing... In 25 knots breeze, leeward cannot escape the wind shadow by luffing. Such a move can only be justified if it is made for tactical reasons. I.e. that it would benefit the boat luffing, even though both boats are losing grounds to the fleet. Such a reason can for example be to try to get another boat between the two, which would help the luffing boats team on the scoreboard.
3. A leeward boat cannot luff a windward boat to the broaching limit without having given her time to take down the spinnaker. Otherwise she has not been given room to maneuver in a seamanlike way.

MLS Protest Committee
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