Season 10, Day 2, Red Server, Race 6, Protest, Batboat vs Frenito

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Batboat
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:02 pm
Location: Danmark

Season 10, Day 2, Red Server, Race 6, Protest, Batboat vs Frenito

Post by Batboat »

Submission Type:
Protest

1. Your registered Boat Name:
Batboat

2. Race Day:
2

3. Group:
Red

4. Race :
6

5. Time (in Replay):
18:53 (after rounding mark on gybe)

6. Rule(s) applicable:
44.2

7. Skipper(s) involved:
Frenito

8. Description:
After rounding mark, Frenito receives a correct penalty (umpire 18.2.c). Frenito should, according to rule 44.2, get well clear of other boats and as soon as possible after the incident, take his penalty turn. Frenito should after he is free of mark (time 18.58) take his penalty. It should not be my problem that he is way too late to take down his spinaker. Frenito waits to take his penalty turn more than 30 secs (time: 19:29). The incident also
reduces my boat speed considerably. I must also emphazise that Frenito by waiting more than 30 seconds lets his team mate (103 SPX) get forward in way so 103 SPX gets inside (windward) overlap on me at the next mark and during tre time I get faul air. I consider this to be unfair team play.

9. Print Screen attached: (required for a valid PROTEST)
No

10. Replay attached: (optional)
No
103 SPX
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: Season 10, Day 2, Red Server, Race 6, Protest, Batboat vs Frenito

Post by 103 SPX »

Hi guys, as my name appears on Batboat's protest I'd like to give my interpretation of this situation and by the way speak on behalf of Frenito.

Facts:

- after Frenito got his pen (18:43) he sailed on dogleg windward to Batboat sailing herself windward to Marino.

- 103 SPX sails about half a length of boat windward to Frenito behind him (no boat length gap there though). In these positions Frenito can't take his pen without risking collision with 103 SPX or at least forcing 103 SPX to luff in order to avoid contact.

- Batboat starts to bear away at 19:19, 103 SPX bears away in order to leave Frenito windward (where he has room to take his pen) right after Batboat bears away. Frenito luffs to start his 360° at 19:23.

Considered all of this I don't see how or when Frenito coud have spinned earlier, 103 SPX and Batboat preventing him to do so. As soon as 103 SPX bear away (action conditionned by Freja and Marino bearing away as well) Frenito had room to take his penalty without causing trouble to any other boat.

On her side 103 SPX had no other option than going through the gap between Batboat and the mark, overlap being created forcing Batboat to give room to 103 SPX.

If Frenito had waited intentionnally to take his penalty this could be indeed considered as a team manoeuver but as it's been said Frenito spinned as soon as he could so RRS 44.2 is not relevant to me here.

Last point (and maybe the most important): Batboat never wrote "P Frenito" during the race + there is no screenshot of the action.


Best regards.
103 SPX on behalf of Frenito
Batboat
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:02 pm
Location: Danmark

Re: Season 10, Day 2, Red Server, Race 6, Protest, Batboat vs Frenito

Post by Batboat »

I think it is positive that 103 SPX on behalf of Frenito is commenting on the case - and I suppose the Committee now has plenty of material 😊
However, I should not fail to comment a little on the rules themselves, ie.: ”Last point (and maybe the most important): Batboat never wrote "P Frenito" during the race + there is no screenshot of the action.”.

It should be noted that my protest concerns 2 different situations. Firstly, 1) a late penalty round and 2) team race.

Concerning # 1, it may never be the responsibility of the participants a of the race to provide evidence that a sailor who has broken the rules is taking his or her penalty round (and, moreover, correctly), with the consequence that the unlawful act, subsequently cannot be punished if you have not taken a screenshot and written protest in chat. There is a big difference between complying with rule 44.2, where the boat in question is typically away from one's vicinity. One cannot expect sailors to focus on this. It should also be borne in mind that 44.2 in a legal sense is a consequence of the boat in question has violated RSS. Therefore, it should be the penalized boat that has the burden of proof that the penalty round has been completed in accordance with 44.2 and not the other sailors. Therefore, there should be no requirement for other sailors to type "P [name]" and take screenshot.

Concerning # 2, regarding team race, it is my opinion that if during the race it is pointed out that other sailors have made team race, then the sailors who have made team race, cannot "repair" on this by taking a penalty round. This makes it irrelevant if the chat indicates that a team has made team race, because the legal effect regardless is the same, namely DSQ.

Finally, I should not fail to note that the jury can always take cases on its own.
FIDUCIT_III
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:03 pm

Re: Season 10, Day 2, Red Server, Race 6, Protest, Batboat vs Frenito

Post by FIDUCIT_III »

At least can this rule of MLS apply:
A boat which is given a penalty by the in-game umpire and is unable to take it without disturbing other boats, may postpone it by writing 'Post Skipper Name' in the chat. He/she can then ask for penalty cancellation which gives the skipper time to find a proper place to take the penalty.

Greets Dierk
Legsy
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: Season 10, Day 2, Red Server, Race 6, Protest, Batboat vs Frenito

Post by Legsy »

Facts:
There is no screenshot included in protest as per MLS Rules.

Decision:
Protest DISMISSED
Batboat +1pt

MLS PC
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