MLS S9 Day 2, Red, Race 2, P + R

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Jammy Dodger
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:04 pm

MLS S9 Day 2, Red, Race 2, P + R

Post by Jammy Dodger »

Submission Type: Protest and Redress

1. Your registered Boat Name: Jammin Dovetails

2. Race Day: 2

3. Group: Red

4. Race : 2

5. Time (in Replay): 9:30

6. Rule(s) applicable: 2, 18.2, 19.2

7. Skipper(s) involved: Balder, Duffy, Piotr, Pawel, Ryhoo, Venhobel, Kent, Batboat, Defender

8. Description: I am approaching the mark as inside boat on port, 7 boats overlapped outside of me.

No-one at any time calls for RTT 'room to tack''.

18 seconds before the zone Kent asks Balder for "room soon" he luffs instead to try and break overlap but does not manage to. Balder gets a correct 18.2. 10 seconds before the zone I also ask for room, not a single boat responds properly or at all to my request or Kents.

The outside boats that it is clear need to give more room are, Duffy and Pawel. Piotr could do more to give room also.

Ryhoo, Venhobel and Kent are sandwiched with nowhere to go.

So with little room in the zone I hit the mark getting a 30.1, Batboat approaching on starboard is then an obstruction so I try to duck him but there is no room to avoid. The outside boats break 18.2 but also 19.2. Unfortunately the contact stops dead me and batboat and the fleet pile up.

Defender also approaching on starboard gets stopped dead too.

At a time of trying to get boatspeed to clear my 31.1 I get another un-avoidable pen 20 from Albervita.

So with all this Chaos who is culpable? I wrote in chat after the chaos died down, "P Boat inside me" as I had no idea who was breaking a rule or not giving room. I also had boat names turned off and some skins had not downloaded so no way to identify in the chaos.

I see now the situation described above. Good luck to the P.C. but in my opinion someone broke rule 2, if thats Balder for deliberately breaking 18.2, or Duffy or Piotr for not giving any room and forcing the collisions, or nadeo for creating this chaos, who knows... I shall wait for P.C. decision with interest!

I ask for Redress as from a likely 3rd or 4th position if I had been given proper room, I went to3rd from last place after my 2 spins. I also believe Batboat as starboard boat should be considered for redress. Balder should NOT be 4th!

My sympathies to the P.C. and wish best of luck sorting this mess out! Someone did mention doing a re - race?! Not sure I want to lol.

Good night!



9. Print Screen attached: Y (required for a valid PROTEST)

10. Replay attached: Y (optional)
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Wind on the Water(03'01''19).Replay.Gbx
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kent38
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: MLS S9 Day 2, Red, Race 2, P + R

Post by kent38 »

This situation was a mess indeed. It will be hard to solve.
Just for info, as I was sandwiched but still port I preferred to do a 360.
see in replay and Screenshot attached.

Good night
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pen done.bmp
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Wetstuff
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:46 am
Contact:

Re: MLS S9 Day 2, Red, Race 2, P + R

Post by Wetstuff »

To me this race, should be cancelled and re-raced
Image

Aksuited
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:16 am

Re: MLS S9 Day 2, Red, Race 2, P + R

Post by Aksuited »

To me, this race was fun. 8-)

Legsy
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: MLS S9 Day 2, Red, Race 2, P + R

Post by Legsy »

Facts:

4 boats overlapped going upwind on port tack, sailing for mark, mark to left to port.
From windward to leeward: Jammin, Kent38, Piotr and Balder.
A second group of port boats, all overlapped: Venhobel, RYH and Duffy.
Further more, Pawel is overlappedto leeward of RYH and Venhobel, but not Duffy.
When the first boat (Jammin) enters the zone, then Jammin is inside boat. Balder has broken overlap on Piotr, but not Jammin and Kent38. At the same time, Venhobel has an overlap on Piotr and Jammin, and is outside boat to them. Duffy is outside overlapped on: Jammin, Piotr, Venhobel and RYH, and inside boat on Pawel.
RYH is outside boat to Venhobel, and inside boat on Duffy and Pawel.

So rules that apply when the first boat enters the zone:
Jammin is to be given mark room under 18.2b, and room to tack (see definition of mark room), by the following boats: Kent38, Piotr, Balder, Venhobel, RYH, Duffy and Pawel.

Kent38 is to be given mark room under 18.2b, and room to tack (see definition of mark room), by the following boats: Piotr, Balder, Venhobel, RYH, Duffy and Pawel. Further more Kent38 is to give Jammin mark room and room to tack.

Balder is to give Jammin and Kent38 mark room and room to tack. Balder is to be given mark room by Piotr, Balder, Venhobel, RYH, Duffy and Pawel, under RRS 18.2c. No boats shall give Balder room to tack, as no boat is overlapped to leeward of him.

Piotr has to give to the following boats: under RRS 18.2b: Jammin and Kent38, Under RRS 18.2c: Balder. Following boats shall give Piotr mark room under RRS 18.2b: Venhobel and Duffy, and under RRS 18.2c: RYH and Pawel.

Venhobel is to give mark room (under RRS 18.2b) and room to tack, to the following boats: Jammin, Kent38 and Piotr. Venhobel shall also give mark room under RRS 18.2c to Balder, but not room to tack.

Ryh is to give Balder mark room under RRS 18.2c, but not room to tack. RYH is to give the following boats mark room under RRS 18.2b, and room to tack: Jammin, Kent38, Piotr and Venhobel. Duffy and Pawel shall give RYH mark room under RRS 18.2b and also room to tack.

Duffy shall be given mark room under RRS 18.2b and room to tack, by Pawel. Duffy shal give Balder mark room under RRS 18.2c, but not room to tack. Further more, Duffy shall give mark room under RRS 18.2b and room to tack, to : Jammin, Kent38, Piotr, Venhobel and RYH.

Pawel shall give mark room under RRS 18.2b and room to tack, to the following boats: Jammin, Kent38, Piotr, Venhobel and RYH. Pawel shall give mark room under RRS 18.2c to Balder and Duffy, but not room to tack.

When Balder is at the mark, he luffs up, not giving Jammin and Kent38 mark room. Kent38 that is trying to give Jammin mark, makes contact with balder, and Kent38 is slowed down. Balder has no boats to leeward of him, and is given a pen RRS 18.2b.
After contact between Balder and Kent38, Balder is able to pass in front of starboard boats coming. Balder sails a little past the mark on port tack, and does him pen turn.

As a result of the contact between Balder and Kent38, Balder then gets clear ahead of Kent38. Further more, Kent38 tries to give mark room to Jammin by bear of. But Kent38 is not give room to give Jammin room, by Piotr, Venhobel, RYH and Duffy. The cause for the first 3 boats being able to give room, is that Duffy is not giving room to any of them.
Now a lot of things happens.

Batboat coming on starboard tack laying the mark, is stopped completely.
Jammin is pushed into the mark, by the boats not giving mark room to Jammin, further more, Jammin is completely stopped, by contact with Batboat, who also stopped at that time.
The following boats is all, more or less completely stopped: Jammin, Kent38, Piotr, Venhobel, Duffy and Batboat.
Since Duffy is slowed down, he can no longer pass a head of Defender, Defender coming on starboard and fetching the mark. There is contact between Duffy (port) and Defender (starboard), and Defender is completely stopped by Duffy.

RYH and Pawel both have bailed out, and is bearing down to go behind Defender, but just in front of them Defender gets stopped, and RYH, even though he tries, can no long pass behind, and RYH gets a RRS 10.

All the time, Pawel is giving room to all boats.

Decision:

Balder breaks RRS 18.2b on Kent38 and Jammin, and gets an advantage by deliberately breaking the rules, Balder therefore also break RRS 2. Balder DNE for breaking RRS 2 and 18.2b.

Jammin breaks RRS 10 on Batboat, but is exonerated under RRS 64.1a, as Balder and Duffy breaks RRS 18.2b on Jammin. Jammin is to be given RDG as 5 points, based he place at the incident.

Kent38 breaks RRS 10 on Batboat and RRS 18.2b on Jammin, but is exonerated under RRS 64.1a, as Balder and Duffy breaks RRS 18.2b on Kent38. Kent38 is to be given RDG as 6 points, based he place at the incident.

Piotr breaks RRS 10 and Rrs 18.2b, but is exonerated under RRS 64.1a, RDG 7 points.
Venhobel breaks RRS 18.2b, but exonerated under RRS 64.1a, RDG 8 points.
Defender breaks no rules, but stopped completely by a boat breaking RRS 2. RDG 9 points.

Batboat breaks no rules, but stopped completely because aboat is breaking RRS 2. Batboat was entitled to RDG, but is later in the race DSQ for an other incident, therefore no RDG given.

Duffy fails completely to comply with the RRS and basic sportmanship. He is the main reason to the big mesh, and he therefore braks not only RRS 18.2b+c and RRS 10, but also RRS 10.
Duffy is to be given a DNE, and his request to RET is denied.

PC for MLS

Batboat
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:02 pm
Location: Danmark

Re: MLS S9 Day 2, Red, Race 2, P + R

Post by Batboat »

Good analysis overall, thanks for looking through it all :)

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